Working In Oncology
Working In Oncology

Episode 2 · 1 year ago

We Innovate Constantly in Healthcare … But Don’t Take Any Credit w/ Dr. Bonnie Clipper


Every time we figure out a work-around or create system changes to make sure our patients get the right treatment … that’s innovation. 


People in healthcare innovate all the time, but we tend not to view ourselves as innovators. 


In this episode, I interview Dr. Bonnie Clipper, Chief Clinical Officer at Wambi and nursing innovation evangelist, about innovation in healthcare. 



We also talked about:  

  • The mindset change that it takes to be an innovator 
  • The first ADHD focus game to get FDA approval 
  • Being one of the top 3 nurse influencers  


Check out these resources mentioned during the podcast: 

-Fast Company has great ideas that apply to healthcare 

-The Innovation Roadmap: A Guide for Nurse Leaders (whitepaper) 

-The Nurse’s Guide to Innovation (book) 

-Dr. Clipper’s YouTube channel 


Stay connected with Working in Oncology on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our podcast website.

You're listening to working in oncology, a podcast and video show that spotlights oncology practice staff and industry influencers who work behind the scenes to shape the future of oncology. The more knowledge the oncology community shares with each other, the more we all grow. Let's get into the show. Welcome to working it oncology, a podcast by bioplus specialty pharmacy. I'm your host for the day, Alicia Evans. I'm joined today by Dr Bonnie, Clipper and expert in nursing innovation and a nurse influencer. She's an international speaker and Sheaf clinical officer at womby. How are you doing today, Bonnie? I'm doing fabulous. Thank you, Alicia. Wonderful. Today we are going to talk about innovation, mindset and gamification and what that looks like in the healthcare space. But first I'd like to help our listeners learn a little bit about you. So we have usually a conflict in our office. Pepsi or coke? Where do you stand? Boo, I don't drink pop, so neither. Oh, that's a good answer. I'm an ICED tea girl. I see, I see your sweet tea. No, sweet tea, for ice, plain old ice, to with the good squeeze a lemon and a lot of is. That sounds delicious. So we are going to talk about innovation mindset and gamification and what that means in the healthcare industry. Let's start with innovation mindset. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? Yeah, absolutely, you know, first I would start by saying that people in Healthcare, particularly nurses, but people in healthcare, tend not to see themselves as innovators. But so often we actually have to do workarounds or create changes in systems or processes or even kind of mcguiver changes, you know, to care for patients or...

...just to do what's necessary to make sure that a patient gets the right medication, the right treatment, the right experience. So we really do a lot of different things to make sure that the end comes out well. However, that's innovation and we often don't think of ourselves that way. So if you start from the point of innovation, it's really important to realize that we can all be innovators. Right. It's really around creativity and invention and allowing yourself to think differently. So if you really want to focus on sort of immersing yourself more in innovation. There's a way to kind of create or cultivate in innovation mindset, and a lot of that has to do with changing the way that you think. So if you're someone that feels like you already have an idea of what an answer might be, or you have the idea of what the solution might be, take a few steps back from that and open your mind to the possibilities. You know, so often an innovation we like to say how might we? Right, it isn't can we, but how might we? How might we do something? How might we change this? How might we do something different with our team? How might we create a different model of care? How might we get the patient the service they need? That looks different. So there's something to be said for opening your mind and not thinking from a closed mind perspective. I would also say it's important to take a look at what's out there, and that almost means really assessing situations deeply and turning them over like a stone in your mind so that you can think differently about them. Right assessing the environment, and not just the immediate environment in front of you, but when you're developing kind of an innovation mindset, it's really around keeping up with contemporary issues and also doing a ton of...

...reading. Right, developing a reading list that exposes you to a lot of different things, whether it's the arts, certainly, the sciences, certain only things around human behavior, but just look at what's out there on a regular basis, and I would say that this doesn't have to be daunting. Alicia, there are so much that comes at us every day. Identify reading lists or sites that you like to go to that you feel like help you expand your mind and just bookmark them so that you can check in with those. Even once a week is adequate. I am someone who really I I have a challenge with input and then I have an insatiable appetite for inputs and reading and videos and Youtube, and I probably spend a couple of hours every evening just reading and seeing what's out there. And for me, it's that curiosity that I can import into my thinking, using it in really different ways. So I think as you bring more kind of to the forefront of your mind, it really allows you to stimulate yourself, to think about things that you haven't thought of before. So the more that you can do that, it's going to let you look through a very different Lens when you go into problem solving mode, and that lends itself very nicely to helping you resolve situations perhaps a bit different than you might normally do. I like it especially keeping up with contemporary issues. We live in interesting times, so it sounds like there are a lot of resources for our listeners to do exactly that and keep up with. Yeah, there really are some fabulous, fabulous resources. And I would say here's one of my secrets. One of my favorite magazines for many, many years now is actually one called Fast Company, and I love it...

...because it brings the lot around design and art and creativity and import some technology and some science. But I like it because it's a very future facing magazine and it makes me think in ways that my normal reads like a lot of my healthcare kind of leadership, administration, nursing business. It's a very different slant on things and it makes me look at some of those articles and go ah, we could do this thing this way in healthcare or we could do this with patients. So I like it because it's a little bit provocative and it makes you think differently. So I think it actually nails its point very, very well, we need more of that in healthcare and certainly in our very, very polarized times. I think we have to read things and expose ourselves to things that make us really reconsider maybe our own opinions and why we believe what we do. This is one of those times that I think it's really, really important to force ourselves to be more willing to listen to all vantage points instead of honkering down and only focusing on what we believe in our own vantage points. So I think it's really important to open your mind to what's out there. Wonderful. I love the idea of open mindedness and being willing to accept new information. Another topic that we would like to discuss is gamification. Can you can you start by giving us kind of a definition of what that means for all of our listeners? Yeah, you bet. So gamification is really the utilization of game elements, like achieving status or points, awards, leveling up, things of that nature, in a non game environment. So if you can kind of think about it up implying the game elements... an environment that isn't a true game, right. So gamification is a is a term that was created. Really is the gaming industry kind of started to take off about fifteen or eighteen years ago and immersing yourself in an in our environment that isn't necessarily a game environment. What's cool about that is that we can actually apply some of those prints bulls and we can use gamification to actually help us hardwire human behaviors. And human behaviors are the tasks and activities that we all do a million times a day as we care for patients or as we, you know, operate our hospitals are clinics, as we functioned as nurses or physicians. So it's really important for us to think about how we can hardwire behavior changes right and using gamification as a way to do that, because you can build something that looks like a game right and it doesn't have to be. It's not something like you know, I'm old school right us, so I'm a huge fan of PAC man and Miss Pac man, and it's not even world warcraft. It's literally building in gamified steps to help people change their behaviors. So there are many examples in healthcare where gamification is actually utilized. So, for example, my company, womb be, we even use gamification in our platform and what we're trying to do is to improve the overall human experience by increasing employee engagement, reducing clinician burnout and certainly enhancing the patient experience. As people sign into the platform, they can actually experience some of the gamification features by accumulating points, leveling up, things of that nature. The same as true in some of the APPS that are patient facing APPs that are out there right now as well. So you can actually see...

...there are some apps. Mango is one example, but there are different ways that you could help patients improve their own compliance. And it's game of fied, right, and I'll tell you that the number one game of fied APP that many, many of US use in probably pre pandemic it might have been our daily lives is the starbucks APP, right. So that's a game of fight APP. And if you think about it, there's overall principles around how these APPS or platforms work, because they're game of fied they are very intriguing and interesting and they keep bringing us back in, and they do that through the points and through the status and through the achievement of awards. So if you think about it, in the starbucks world there are points that you accumulate every time you do an activity right, and that activity is buying a drink or spending money at starbucks, you get points for that. As you watch your points kind of run up and in total you're working towards a reward. The reward is a free starbucks drink. So what's happening is you spend your money, you get points. Every time you open your app you see your little circle closing, you see how close you are to the free drink. You get the free drink, you get all kinds of little gold stars. You feel really good about that and then they're changing your behavior because now you want to go back and buy another starbucks drink because you're going to get another free one down the road. So, as you think about it, all of those steps of gamification right, the points, the achievement that rewards, there's a feeling of euphor you that's created, because that's actually what games do, is they get to a specific part of our brain that releases the endorphins in the dopamine, which is our pleasure center. So when we get into that place and those little gold stars go off for the little wombie birds go..., or you see that you're getting points in your patient compliance APP. It makes us feel good, it brings us pleasure and that's what continually brings us back over and over into these APPs and these platforms again and again so we can change behaviors, because people love that feeling of pleasure. So it's a very, very effective tool. And I would add Alicia, the first game. It's actually a game, has actually been approved by the FDA for treatment. So it's the first one approved and it happened it was approved in June of this year and it's actually for children with Adhd and what it does is the game actually allows them. It's a focus game, but it's actually been shown to mitigate some of the signs and symptoms of Adhd. So we are just at the very early stages of how we're going to use gamification to help us improve and treat medical conditions, but there's so much opportunity already to really help people hardware new behaviors. That's an incredible what a great example of taking concepts from other industries and applying them to healthcare. From pacman to an APP that helps children who are suffering from ADHD. That is really incredible. It is amazing. So can you give us a little bit more information about how you got started in innovation mindset and became inners and floodswer. Yeah, totally my pleasure on that. So I'm I've had the amazing good fortune to become a Robert Wood Johnson executive and nurse fellow in two thousand and fourteen, and that's a three year program. So as we got into the first year of our program it was necessary for us to determine what we were going to...

...kind of study and focus on, and my area was innovation. So I was part of a team of five. We actually dug deeply into innovation, and this is back in two thousand and fourteen, and what we realized is at the time nurses didn't know at all what the word meant. Nurses didn't understand it, they weren't involved. Venture capitalist or VC's weren't coming to nurses who had amazing ideas to say let us fund it. So we actually jumped in and we studied what the roadblocks were and how we could help organizations become more innovative. So we actually published a white paper. It was in two thousand and in two thousand and fifteen, and it was the innovation tool, kid, a guide for nurse leaders and it's actually available today on the American Nurses Association website, the Innovation website, and it's had hundreds of thousands of downloads and it's been an amazing reference for people. So that was the start of my journey. I've really been into this space again because nurses tend to be underrepresented. Last year focused on writing a book along with some coauthors. We assemble the team and we produced the nurses guide to innovation. So that actually was an Amazon best seller in six countries in the first thirty six hours. So that's been amazing a tool kit for nurses as well to jump in and use that guide. So it continues to be fun for me. I really do talk about a whole lot of opportunity for nurse is to get into innovation and what it means and some amazing ideas on Linkedin, which is where I'm one of the top nurst influencers. So I love helping nurses understand what they can do and pulling them into conversations or encouraging them to lean into conversations on their own so that we can gain the visibility and the insight and having nurses involved in the conversations like like we should. It should be involved in...

...every one of these conversations. Absolutely, Dr Bunny, it really sounds like you wrote the book right on Nursing Innovation. It's been a lot of fun, wonderful. So, Dr Buy, this has been a wonderful conversation. And for any of our listeners who want to reach out to you, you know, with follow up questions, are just want wants to keep in touch. What is the best way for them to do that? Find me on Linkedin, send me a linkedin message reply. You know, please engage with my content. I actually just launched a youtube channel as well. So I know this is your very first podcast and I would tell you you're doing an amazing job and you'll continue to learn and grow. I launched my youtube channel just about a month ago and it's silly being new again right everything that we do that feels new, put your back and you have to have a beginner's mind and be open to learn and do things different. So I think there are reasons, at least, should that many of us jump into these new things and take these things on willingly. That's just how our brain operates. So very good job for you, and please anybody that wants to engage, I'm out on Linkedin or engage with me on Youtube. Happy to talk and happy to connect. Awesome. Thank you so much, so much encouragement and I see a lot of hope for the future. We really appreciate you being a guest on the show. Absolutely. It is my pleasure. I'm here in Sonny, Austin, Texas, and it looks beautiful outside, but it is my pleasure to spend some time with you today. Are You satisfied with your patients curtsy to therapy, or are you just settling? You can improve patient outcomes with bioplus specialty pharmacies power of to the first ever two hour, two day to gather a promise. It's faster and easier for you and your patients to learn more. Visit bioplus Ur xcom. You've been listening to working... oncology. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you're listening in apple podcast. We've love for you to leave with rating of the show. Just have the number of stars you think the podcast deserves. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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